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Utah Turning to Gold/Silver
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John S.
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http://www.foxnews.com/...d-silver-coins/

It's been nearly 80 years since the U.S. stopped using gold coins as legal currency, and nearly 40 since the world abandoned the gold standard, but the precious metal could be making a comeback in the United States -- beginning in Utah.

The Utah House was to vote as early as Thursday on legislation that would recognize gold and silver coins issued by the federal government as legal currency in the state. The coins would not replace the current paper currency but would be used and accepted voluntarily as an alternative.

The legislation, which has 12 co-sponsors, would let Utahans pay their taxes with gold and also calls for a committee to study alternative currencies for the state. It would also exempt the sale of gold from the state capital gains tax.

The bill cleared a state legislative committee on Wednesday, the first of 11 similar bills in statehouses across the country to do so. If the bill clears the House, it would have to pass the Senate before the governor could sign it into law.

Attorney and Tea Party activist Larry Hilton, author of the original bill, said he doesn't foresee any roadblocks.

"There's enough uneasiness going on in the economy to trigger people to feel that, hey, having a little Plan B, kind of a backup system, is not a bad idea," he told FoxNews.com.

The U.S. used some version of the gold standard from 1873 until 1933, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt outlawed the private ownership of gold amid the Great Depression. An international monetary system based on a gold-exchange standard continued until 1971 when President Richard Nixon stopped the U.S. from redeeming dollars for gold altogether.

Critics of the gold standard say it limits countries' control over its monetary policy and leaves them vulnerable to financial shocks, such as the Great Depression. But supporters argue that the current financial system's dependence on the Federal Reserve exposes the value of U.S. money to the threat of inflation.

Rep. Ron Paul, a longtime critic of the Federal Reserve who has called on a return to the gold standard, has praised Hilton's efforts.

"Efforts such as yours in states around the country highlight the importantance of returning to sound money," Paul wrote in a letter to Hilton. "Even if such efforts fail to achieve legislative success on their first try, their importance lies in bringing to the public's attention the problem of the ever-weakening dollar and the necessity of returning to a sound monetary system."

Hilton said the bill before the House doesn't go as far as his original draft, which was more sweeping, including recognizing more than just U.S. minted coins and more details on specific tax treatment. But he said he's willing to take it step-by step.

He also said he's not pushing to restore the gold standard in the U.S.

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke this week dismissed the notion of the gold standard returning to the U.S.

"It did deliver price stability over long periods of time, but over shorter periods of time it caused wide swings in prices related to changes in demand or supply of gold," he told the Senate Banking Committee. "So I don't think it's a panacea."

Bernanke also said that gold couldn't return as the world standard because there's not enough gold in the world to effectively support the U.S. money supply.

Hilton said he's taking a positive approach to the issue.

"This is not an anti-dollar issue at all," he said. "We want to strengthen the dollar. We think by introducing gold and silver of our nation's history, by injecting that into the debate is very healthy for our policymakers."

Jeff Bell, a policy director for the Washington-based American Principles in Action (APPIA), which helped shape the Utah bill, told FoxNews.com that passage of the bill would send a message to Washington and other states.

"People sense that in the era of quantitative easing and zero interest rates, something has gone haywire with our monetary policy. But people are afraid to say it," said Bell, who was an adviser to Ronald Reagan's 1976 and 1980 presidential campaigns. "If one state recognizes gold as a valid currency, I think it would embolden people not just in other states but in Washington."

Bell credited Tea Party activists for advancing the legislation this far. Rep. Brad Galvez, who introduced the legislation, is a freshman legislator backed by the Tea Party.

"Saying we now recognize gold as money is a big step forward," he said.

Twelve other states have offered similar proposals: Georgia, Montana, Missouri, Colorado, Indiana, Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, Tennessee, Washington, Vermont and Oklahoma.

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kneedragger79
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Join date: Jun 2008
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So would there be any real downside if the whole country went this way? The monies would be harder to copy would they not? Gold at almost $1,500 right now, I wish I had more of a stock pile! lol

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John S.
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kneedragger79 wrote:
So would there be any real downside if the whole country went this way? The monies would be harder to copy would they not? Gold at almost $1,500 right now, I wish I had more of a stock pile! lol


Only downside is the government couldn't inflate and people would have to have a real discussion about what they wanted the government to do, because people would actually have to pay for it.

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Apollo1029
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This type of stuff isn't just happening in Utah. In parts of Massachusettes there is a new currency being circulated in communties called the Berkshare. The American dollar isn't what it once was and with the way the government keeps printing it soon it will be worthless. I have a feeling Americas time is coming to face reality. There is a push from a lot of foreign countries to abandon the dollar as the world trade currency.

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TQB
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John S. wrote:
legislation that would recognize gold and silver coins issued by the federal government as legal currency in the state.



John S, meet Sir Thomas Gresham...

You offer to pay me in silver dollars or in double eagles? Fine. Just don't expect to see them again;-)

TQB

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byukid
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I am living in Utah and am in the freedom movement right now, and actually met one of the guys who is pushing this bill really hard. It's awesome.

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John S.
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byukid wrote:
I am living in Utah and am in the freedom movement right now, and actually met one of the guys who is pushing this bill really hard. It's awesome.


If this bill passes I know where I am going to be moving after college.

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byukid
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It got through the House, now on to the Senate!

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UtahLama
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There has not been a whole lot of pub around here, but several executives in our company were talking about it, they think it will be very positive for the state.

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John S.
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UtahLama wrote:
There has not been a whole lot of pub around here, but several executives in our company were talking about it, they think it will be very positive for the state.


Sound money does tend to do that.

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John S.
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byukid wrote:
It got through the House, now on to the Senate!


This is very good news. if it makes it through in 2 years or so I will be moving to Utah.

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
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The part about "

Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke this week dismissed the notion of the gold standard returning to the U.S.
," was extremely LOL worthy.

Of course he believes this otherwise he'd be out of work.

He is clearly ignorant of economics if he thinks there isn't enough gold to support a new gold standard.

Prices would be in terms of weights of gold and would adjust accordingly. The problem is that he is too used to thinking in terms of paper and the amount of space he'd need for zeros to support a gold standard.

The system is starting to crumble. Even if the representative is unsuccessful it shows that people are starting to wake up.

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ZEB
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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

The system is starting to crumble.


Do you honestly believe this to be 100% correct?

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John S.
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As I write this silver is at 36.39

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orion
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ZEB wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

The system is starting to crumble.


Do you honestly believe this to be 100% correct?


Take a long hard look at the US budget and tell me that it isnt.

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Deorum
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I am personally an advocate of replacing the fiat system we have in place now. Gold/Silver standard has always been my favorite basis for a barter system.

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TQB
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So:

A Silver Dollar is worth ~$27, except in Utah where it is worth $1.

A Double Eagle is worth ~$1400, except in Utah where it is worth $20.

Nothing in the law say you can demand payment in silver or gold. You are just obliged to accept such payments.

Sigh.

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ZEB
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Deorum wrote:
Gold/Silver standard has always been my favorite basis for a barter system.



Is that how your customers pay you on your paper route?

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
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ZEB wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

The system is starting to crumble.


Do you honestly believe this to be 100% correct?

Of course it is. Look around you. People are tired of supporting a failed system.

The fed cannot continue to inflate sans repercussions.

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
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TQB wrote:
So:

A Silver Dollar is worth ~$27, except in Utah where it is worth $1.

A Double Eagle is worth ~$1400, except in Utah where it is worth $20.

Nothing in the law say you can demand payment in silver or gold. You are just obliged to accept such payments.

Sigh.


Fail.

Transactions are voluntary. The worth of silver or gold in terms of the dollar is irrelevant. That is why they are considering it.

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ZEB
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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Of course it is. Look around you. People are tired of supporting a failed system.


I think that's where you're having a problem/ You've looked around you and see that people are tired of supporting the system. Now look beyond your circle of friends and family. Half of the people in the US don't even pay taxes and they just love Obama and the way things are going. They want free stuff. Their unemployment benefits have been extended to two years. There are more state and federal programs to support them than ever before. They're quite happy and not about to take to the streets to change things.

So, look beyond those around you.

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Deorum
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If you honestly support a fiat financial system that is self evident that you are a complete retard or at the very least you don't have your best interests in mind. There is no compromising on that view. It is a FIAT system - how could you even BEGIN to support it over a time tested method such as the gold/silver standard? Oh god people crack me up. And then to condescend those with the balls to stand against the current system - LOL!

Do you know why we have a fiat system in place over a gold/silver standard? Because in a fiat system those in power have 100% control of the economy - they print the fucking paper you value as money. They control the processes of inflation and deflation that makes them fucking rich and powerful and makes you a poor slob - yet you STILL want to support them! LOL! I swear judging on how some people feel I have to think they are either retarded or honestly hold their slave masters interests over their own. Fucking bizarre behavior I swear.

I challenge ANYONE to even TRY to defend the fiat system. This will not be an obtuse religious debate - this is cut and dry. Just try...

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Deorum
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Join date: Oct 2009
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ZEB wrote:
Deorum wrote:
Gold/Silver standard has always been my favorite basis for a barter system.



Is that how your customers pay you on your paper route?



"yap yap yap yap pay attention to me deorum yap yap yap yap"

"DOWN BOY!" *slaps that ugly dog in the fucking nose*

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ZEB
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Deorum wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Deorum wrote:
Gold/Silver standard has always been my favorite basis for a barter system.



Is that how your customers pay you on your paper route?



"yap yap yap yap pay attention to me deorum yap yap yap yap"

"DOWN BOY!" *slaps that ugly dog in the fucking nose*


If you just knew anything...and I mean just anything about what you're blathering about all over this forum, I wouldn't mind looking the other way when you say stupid stuff. But so far from God to the economy it's just all stupid stuff.

Then again, when I was 19 I didn't make a whole lot of sense either. The only difference is I knew enough to keep my mouth shut. I guess that's the down side of the Internet. A stupid thought 20 years ago was only expressed to a friend or relative, now guys like you have the world to spew your mindless chatter.

"I'm 19, barely out of high school and I know there is no God and I fully understand how complex economy's work."

There you go I wanted you to read what the rest of us see when you post.

:)

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LIFTICVSMAXIMVS
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Join date: Apr 2005
Posts: 11983

ZEB wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Of course it is. Look around you. People are tired of supporting a failed system.


I think that's where you're having a problem/ You've looked around you and see that people are tired of supporting the system. Now look beyond your circle of friends and family. Half of the people in the US don't even pay taxes and they just love Obama and the way things are going. They want free stuff. Their unemployment benefits have been extended to two years. There are more state and federal programs to support them than ever before. They're quite happy and not about to take to the streets to change things.

So, look beyond those around you.


It does not matter what people want. Economic law cannot support the current policy of government expansion regardless of who or what "the people support."

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