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ALA vs. R-ALA
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AKLOVE36
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I read that R-ALA is something like 100% more effective at glucose managent than regular ala. The component that makes up the other half of ala may interfere with the benefits of R-ALA.

How about an article in the upcomming issues of T-MAG to explain all of this.
I've noticed in many of the diets and articles published in t-mag that ala is often recommended. Can the R-ALA version be that much better?

Thanks,
AKLOVE36

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El Conquistador
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You may want to incorporate the search engine from time to time...there are a couple of good threads on this very subject...just type in r-ala.

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AKLOVE36
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Thanks. I feel like a rookie, I usualy search first, but I have reading this board pretty steadily and hadn't seen this topic disscussed.

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Thunder
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R-ALA is MUCH, MUCH better. Nothing like the feeling of being so full, you're gonna bust.

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El Conquistador
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Something you all may like to know:

I got an email from IHerb yesterday and in their latest newsletter they have added R-ALA from Source Naturals. I haven't checked price yet or anything but will do so after I'm done here.

Also, in BAC's latest catalog they claim that they are not a big believer in R-ALA as supposedly there are studies that show it's only roughly 30 percent more effective than the regular stuff, and the added cost doesn't justify it in their opinion.

Me, I bought it anyway...and yes Thunder, it seems to work well. I didn't feel any great effect; however, I think I got away with eating more carbs on my refeed than I should have.

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El Conquistador
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I just checked out IHerb and the Source Naturals R-ALA is only $18 for 60 caps at 100 mg...that's cheaper than what some companies sell the regular ALA for. Better deals are also available for qty. purchases.

I wonder if this is going to cause Anabolic Fitness and 1Fast400 to lower their prices now...sure would be nice to get more reasonable prices on this stuff.

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Thunder
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$18 for 60, 100mg capsules? How is that cheaper than Anabolic Fitness? They charge $24 for 120, 100mg capsules.

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Timbo808
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Mount Monty, that's some high-quality info, brutha. Thanks for sharing.

Two quick questions for you that are relevant to the topic at hand:

1. Would the dosage for r-ALA belower than for the racaemic mix?

2. What dosage have you found effective for r-ALA during the post-workout period?

Thanks, Mon-Tee. I recently had a buddy ask me about r-ALA and he expressed symptoms of that hyperinsulinemic hypoglycemic induced coma that some of you guys have often mentioned after eating carbs post-workout or on a carb-up.

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El Conquistador
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Oops...an oversight on my part. I didn't factor in the number of caps. Plus, I wasn't smart enough to get the coupon discount when I ordered from Anabolic Fitness. I will slap my hand with a ruler.

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El Conquistador
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Thunder...what are your thoughts on using R-ALA to induce ketosis?

I am going back to straight keto for a week (have been on Poliquin-style for quite a while), but I am not in ketosis. After a refeed, I used to do a big dose of regular ALA before bed on an empty stomach to lower blood sugar quickly. Would 300 mg. be enough R-ALA to get the job done, or should I possibly try a little more? I know that this could make someone light headed and nauseous, but this is why I do it before bed so I can "sleep it off." I need to get into full-blown ketosis for a week to see if I get any difference compared to being "close to ketosis." Thanks for any advice!

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o0ArticA0o
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the dosing protocol for r-ala is:<br>100mg for every 50g-100g of cho. of course what influences the amount of CHO is their glycemic index. So, if it has a low GI then of course you can get away with more CHO and less r-ala.<P>ALA contains both (s)-ala, and r-ala in ratios of 1:1! But, s form can actually criple or take away the effectiveness of r-ala. So in safe predictions or estimates I usually think that in 300mg of ALA im actually only using about 75-100mg of r-ala! So, yes r-ala all by itself is far superior to ALA!<P>Da boxer

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Thunder
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Monty, I've actually been able to show urinary ketones at carb levels well above what I'd normally eat to drop into ketosis while using r-ala. That's one of the things I've found interesting. I wasn't trying to get into ketosis, since I still had some carbs in my diet, but noticed some of the tell-tale signs and decided to check. Low and behold, trace ketones.

So, to answer your question, I'd say it will definitely help you drop into ketosis. 300mg should do it, but there's also the individual difference variable to consider. Give it a shot and see what happens.

I'm refeeding today, with high dose r-ala and my blood sugar is all over the place. But I do feel really full today.

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El Conquistador
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Boxer Al...I know what to do as far as with carbs, but what I'm actually planning on doing is taking it W/O carbs to induce ketosis, on an empty stomach before bed, and wanted to know what would be the appropriate dosage.

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Bachovas
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"I recently had a buddy ask me about r-ALA and he expressed symptoms of that hyperinsulinemic hypoglycemic induced coma that some of you guys have often mentioned after eating carbs post-workout or on a carb-up."

Well, that buddy would be me. :-)
These last 3 days I did a quick experiment with my post-w meals.

Day one: Protein + rolled oats + all bran.
Day two: Protein + cooked rolled oats + all bran.
Day three : Protein + cooked rolled oats.

Long story short, I felt symptoms of that "hyperinsulinemic hypoglycemic induced coma" with both of my meals containing cooked oatmeal. Even worst symptoms with the absence of extra fiber (all-bran).
Apparently cooking oatmeal DOES raise it's GI, at least in my case.
My solution? I won't stop cooking my oatmeal; Why? Probably the fact that when they fill up with water when cooked, reveals all their properties more optimally. (soluble fibre content, more ease of digestion etc.).
So I'll just get some ALA from 1fast. I'm planning to take 600mg per P/C meal.
R-ALA on a 200mg dosage would last, for 15 days (20$), ALA on a 1800mg dosage would last, for 30 days(25$).
There you go.

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Timbo808
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Bacho, I believe in confidentiality, my friend:-) Glad you decided to show your beautiful face.

Anyway, go ahead and give the ALA a go. I know that people have mentioned good things from it, but it appears that the r-ALA does a much more efficient and noticeable job, albeit at a lower dosage.

Keep us updated on your progress.

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John DeVito
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I just checked on anabolic fitness and it costs $40 for 120 caps...how do you get the coupon to get it for $24?

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o0ArticA0o
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Monty,<p>if your using it to induce ketosis while not consuming carbohydrates than you really only need the smallest amount possible, 100mg. That should do it just fine, take 200mg during your workouts for post-workout shakes though. Try that!<br>Da Boxer

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Marc McDougal
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I for one am a big fan of r-ALA. I have done quite a bit of blood glucose testing, as I'm sure some of you know with various glucose control agents. I have found that 100mg r-ALA has the same effect as 800mg of ALA on glucose levels following a post workout shake. If I have stimulants in my system, I go up to 200mg, or sometimes 300mg, but anymore than that appears to be overkill from my observations. I think the ketostix are a bit overrated as a guideline for ketosis, I would trust the blood glucose levels for a more accurate idea.

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loopfitt
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Couple of questions for anyone willing to answer?
1/ Should one use r-ala/ala products with Surge pw? Christian Thibadeau recommends this but I always thought that would negate the purpose of the Surge.
2/ This may sound stupid, but should one use r-ala/ala with carb meals when doing a bulking cycle?

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o0ArticA0o
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Marc,<p>when or what timing protocol did you use when testing for r-ala? Basically, at what time before the meal or post workout shake did you ingest the r-ala? I usually take about 30 minutes before the meal or shake!<p>Da Boxer

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SRS
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To Marc McDougal- Ditto Boxer_Al, I'd like to know more about your "home testing" protocols for r-ALA. <p>There seem to be very little in the way of controlled studies in this area (r-ALA vs ALA racemic), so your insight is greatly appreciated. I too have purchased a fairly large qty of straight ALA, and take 300mg BID. Getting a hold on the actual "ratio of effectiveness" and consequently the choice of r-ALA vs ALA in terms of VALUE would be great to try to calculate don't ya think guys?<p>
SRS

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El Conquistador
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Loop...I suppose you could take it w. Surge, but I think it would be better suited to save it for the second p.w. feeding (assuming you're doing p/c meal), or possibly on an empty stomach to hasten ketosis for the old school keto people.

And yes, I think it would be a good idea to take with carb meals while bulking. Remember in the original Massive Eating plan and for people coming off low-carb diets, JMB recommended alternating ALA, glucosol and d-pintol with all p/c meals.

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pkradgreek
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ALA is an insulin mimiker and does not have any affect on insulin secretion. is that True or False? Also will it shuttle any macro or micro nutrients out of the blood into tissues, whether fat or adipose? True or False? laters pk

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Marc McDougal
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Boxer Al & SRS- I have found that I can take r-ALA as little as 5-10min before a meal/shake and still get the effects. With ALA I needed about 20-30 minutes to get it into my system before I knocked down the calories. I have done quite a bit of testing on myself/clients/friends, mainly because I can't find any good published literature. The non-invasive factors to consider would be:

1> Amount of carbs
2> LBM
3> caffeine/ephedrine in the system

However, I would like to see people test themselves for proper doseages, as everyone responds differently to glucose challenges. Unfortunately, going by how you feel may not always be accurate. I have felt shaky and starving with my blood glucose at 145mg/dL during one post workout test involving 200mg caffeiene + Surge. Basically I was showing signs of hypoglycemia, but physiologicaly experiencing hyperglycemia, this "feeling" would have caused me to inacurately choose a doseage.

Still, the range I have found to get the job done is 100mg-300mg.

Hope this helps

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o0ArticA0o
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Definately helps out Marc. Im actually excited to know that it's affective even at 10-15minutes before a meal. I sometimes forget and remember right before, having to wait that extra 30 minutes blows, 10-15 minutes sure helps.<p>Da Boxer

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